Archives: December 2006
Sun Dec 10, 2006
Intrade committing fraud?
UPDATE 12/22/2006:
Now that the matter was brought to the higher-ups at Intrade, they are handling it very responsibly and I am confident that the matter is going to get resolved. I'm convinced that Intrade is not committing fraud. Their customer service was extremely unresponsive with me so they left me wondering what was going on, but now that I brought the issue to their attention in this way, they are handling it as it should be handled. I'll keep you all posted on what happens, but they seem intent on making it right one way or another, now.
Original post follows:
I made a $100 withdrawal from my TradeSports/Intrade account on August 29 which I never received. Below is the correspondence I have had with Intrade. At this point, I can only call it negligence or fraud.
Normally my time would be worth much more than this. But I feel the need to warn other customers about how callously Intrade treats their money. Not only are they taking no responsibility for determining what happened to my money, but they have consistently broken direct promises to me about how they will handle the matter and follow up with me.
Please note that my initial communication with them was in error. I did not make two withdrawals -- only one. All future communications inquire about the status of that one withdrawal. Also note that I have not received any reply to my last email to them, on November 24. They refuse to tell me the status of their bank traces.
LivePerson chat on October 6, 2006:
Thank you for contacting the Trade Exchange Network. Please wait for a site operator to respond. You are number 1 in the queue.
Hello, you are now chatting with 'Ivan'
Ivan: Hello. How may I help you?
David Joseph: Hello. I made two withdrawals which I have not yet received. Most recently a $100 withdrawal on August 29.
Ivan: Is this by cedit card right? let me check.
David Joseph: yes, credit card
Ivan: Aug 29?
David Joseph: That was one of the two, yes.
David Joseph: There was another one prior to that as well.
David Joseph: I do not have the exact date on that.
Ivan: Ok that should be creditted by now... its surpass the 10 business days
Ivan: Please email help@tradesports.com with the specific information, I will give it to the banking department ASAP
David Joseph: Right, I have not received credit for either withdawal.
David Joseph: OK. I do not know the exact amount of my previous withdrawal.
Ivan: Ok gotcha, please be specific in your email
David Joseph: OK. Will you have a record of the previous withdrawal?
Ivan: The banking team will look into it, just please email help@tradesports.com
David Joseph: ok
Ivan: I dont have access to it, but the banking team will.
David Joseph: ok, thank you
Ivan: Goodbye and thank you.
Chat session has been terminated by the site operator.
From: <my email address>
Subject: Withdrawal never received
Date: October 6, 2006 6:22:41 PM EDT
To: help@tradesports.com
Hello,
My name is David Joseph, account <my account number>. I made two credit card withdrawals, most recently a $100 withdrawal on August 29th. I have not yet received credit for either withdrawal. Please let me know what's going on.
Thank you,
David
From: help@intrade.com
Subject: RE: Withdrawal never received
Date: October 6, 2006 6:23:32 PM EDT
To: <my email address>
Hello David,
Thanks for your enquiry. We refunded $100 back to your <my credit card type> on 29th Sept. This refund should take no longer than 5 banking days to complete so I will have our Banking Dept invesitagate immediately for you. They may not have any information for until Monday however.
Please note that we cannot deposit funds directly into your credit card account. We can only reverse any deposits you have made in the previous six months. You have only made one deposit of $100 over this period and so we cannot refund any more than this $100 to your credit card.
Kind regards,
Carl Wolfenden
Acting Exchange Manager
From: <my email address>
Subject: Re: Withdrawal never received
Date: October 6, 2006 6:32:09 PM EDT
To: help@intrade.com
Thank you for looking into the $100 refund from September 29th (why did it take a month for you to initiate that transaction?).
As far as the other withdrawal, my concern isn't so much that it be a credit card withdrawal. It's fine to withdraw by check. But my concern is that the money disappeared from my account and I never received it. Do you have a record of my previous withdrawal, before August 29th?
Thanks,
David
From: help@intrade.com
Subject: Re: Withdrawal never received
Date: October 9, 2006 3:45:29 AM EDT
To: <my email address>
Dear David,
Thank you for contacting the Exchange Operations Team,
Your withdrawal on the 29th of August was the only withdrawal made this year the withdrawal before that occured 3rd of December 2005.
If you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind Regards,
Orlagh Deegan
LivePerson chat on November 5, 2006:
Thank you for contacting the Trade Exchange Network. Please wait for a site operator to respond. You are number 1 in the queue.
Hello, you are now chatting with 'Stephen'
Stephen: Hello. How may I help you?
David Joseph: Hello. I made a $100 withdrawal on August 29 which I never received. I inquired on October 6th about it and I was told I should receive it soon. But have not.
You are not currently in a chat session.
Thank you for contacting the Trade Exchange Network. Please wait for a site operator to respond. You are number 1 in the queue.
Hello, you are now chatting with 'Stephen'
Stephen: Hello. How may I help you?
David Joseph: Hi. I seem to have gotten disconnected.
Stephen: You had a $100 cc withdrawal
David Joseph: I made a $100 withdrawal on August 29 which I never received. I inquired on October 6th about it and I was told I should receive it soon. But have not.
David Joseph: Right.
Stephen: Some credit card companies have begun rejecting credit card withdrawals so we need to wait until the money is returned from your card company.
Stephen: We will then credit it to your account and you can withdraw by an alternative method
David Joseph: Why was I not told about this on October 6th? I was told I should receive it in a few days.
Stephen: It is simply a case of waiting until it gets returned, naturally we hope that it gets returned as soon as possible
David Joseph: Right, but can you answer my question please?
Stephen: Were you told this by Live chat?
David Joseph: Ivan: Ok that should be creditted by now... its surpass the 10 business days
David Joseph: Ivan: Please email help@tradesports.com with the specific information, I will give it to the banking department ASAP
David Joseph: I then emailed that address.
David Joseph: Carl Wolfenden replied:
David Joseph: "Thanks for your enquiry. We refunded $100 back to your <my credit card type> on 29th Sept. This refund should take no longer than 5 banking days to complete so I will have our Banking Dept invesitagate immediately for you. They may not have any information for until Monday however."
Stephen: Yes he said it "should be" in your account. However we have no control over the speed of this. As stated as soon as we receive the funds back we will deposit them direcetly back into your account.
David Joseph: OK, so it's now been over two months since I made that initial withdrawal, and as far as I'm concerned the money seems to have disappeared.
David Joseph: I need to know when I can expect the money to be back in my account, so I can make a check withdrawal.
David Joseph: I was never informed about this situation with credit card companies when I complained a month ago, either.
Stephen: I cannot give a definate date as we have no control over the speed your credit card company returns the funds to us. I will send an internal email to the banking dept to try and trace the withdrawal for you and hopefully have this resolved as soon as possible
David Joseph: Can you have someone email me in the next week to let me know the status of that trace?
Stephen: Yes
David Joseph: OK, great. I look forward to seeing the email.
David Joseph: Thank you.
Stephen: Goodbye and thank you.
LivePerson chat on November 12, 2006:
Thank you for contacting the Trade Exchange Network. Please wait for a site operator to respond. You are number 1 in the queue.
Hello, you are now chatting with 'thomas'
thomas: Hello. How may I help you?
David Joseph: I made a $100 withdrawal on August 29th. On October 6th, I had still not received the money, and was told I would receive the money in a coule of days. On November 5th, I *still* hadn't received the money, and Stephen promised that he would have someone email me concerning its status within a week. I have not received any such email. I am furious.
thomas: by what method ?
David Joseph: Credit card.
thomas: Ok it is most likely that your bank blocked and bounced it back to us
David Joseph: What does that have to do with it? I was promised an email.
thomas: I am sorry about taht and you shoud have got one
David Joseph: At this stage I am bordering on thinking Intrade must be a scam.
David Joseph: It has been nearly three months since my withdrawal.
thomas: And i totally understand your frustration
thomas: Ok David that is correct
thomas: What i need you to do is email us at help@tradesports.com because we need a communication from your email address that is on your account
thomas: I will have banking look into it myself
David Joseph: I already did that at the beginning of October.
David Joseph: and I was told I would have the money in a few days
David Joseph: Furthermore, at the time of my withdrawal, I was not informed of the situation regarding credit card withdrawals being blocked.
thomas: It was not till the very early september that we begain to realise that they were being blocked
David Joseph: That's fine, but you are still responsible with what happens with the money that I have trusted with you.
thomas: Ok This is now a serious matter
David Joseph: I'm sure I'm not the only customer this has happened to.
thomas: Yes but the funds are bounced back to us in a few weeks and funds are deposited back into their account where they qwould select another method
David Joseph: It has been well over a few weeks.
thomas: I will need to send an email to banking in relation to this
David Joseph: OK. Do you know what the deal is with Stephen a week ago?
David Joseph: He told me he would have banking trace the withdrawal, and email me within the week.
David Joseph: Do you know if he even followed up at all?
thomas: I dont i am sorry
David Joseph: Can you find out please?
thomas: I am affraid to say Stephen is off at the moment
David Joseph: When will he be available?
thomas: and the banking department is closed
thomas: Tomorrow
David Joseph: OK. Can you find out tomorrow?
thomas: Sure
David Joseph: thank you.
thomas: Goodbye and thank you.
David Joseph: As far as the $100 goes -- I need a promise that I will have the money in the near future. At this stage it is no good to just say that the status is unknown. As I said, it has been nearly three months.
David Joseph: One way or another I need Intrade to take responsibility for this.
thomas: As i said i will have have banking look into the matter tomorrow and they will contact you on it
David Joseph: When can I expect to be contacted?
thomas: Tomorrow
David Joseph: OK. By what method of communication?
thomas: Email
thomas: Hello. How may I help you?
David Joseph: OK. I look forward to receiving an email tomorrow.
David Joseph: I will be very upset if I do not.
thomas: Goodbye and thank you.
David Joseph: Goodbye.
LivePerson chat on November 13, 2006
(most lost due to a Firefox 2 crash -- what is here is from a screenshot)
<all content above this point lost>
Ivan: I cannot speak for what others did, I can only speak <cut off from screenshot>
do for you.
David Joseph: You're representing Intrade. I need a prom <cut off from screenshot>
situation will be resolved.
Ivan: Please follow the appropriate instructions I have give <cut off from screenshot>
reply to your email once I receive it so you know I have it <cut off from screenshot>
forward it to the appropriate party.
David Joseph: I will follow your instructions, but I demand <cut off from screenshot>
responsive handling of this matter.
David Joseph: If I, for a fourth time, do not receive it
David Joseph: I will be forced to publicize this matter as <cut off from screenshot>
customers.
David Joseph: I possess logs of all correspondences.
(another chat on this date seems to have also been lost due to a Firefox 2 crash)
From: <my email address>
Subject: Withdrawal fiasco
Date: November 13, 2006 9:46:47 PM EST
To: help@tradesports.com
Hello Ivan,
As we discussed, I am emailing help@tradeports.com concerning a $100 withdrawal made on August 29th to my credit card.
As of October 6th, I had not yet received the $100, so I inquired online as to the status of the transaction. I spoke to you on that date, Ivan. I was told by you for the first time about issues with credit card companies blocking withdrawals, and that my withdrawal was likely blocked. However, I was assured via email that I would have the $100 within a couple of days.
On November 5th, I had still not received the $100, so I again inquired online as to the status. I was told by Stephen that the banking department would initiate a trace of the transfer, and get back to me via email within 7 days.
On November 12th, I had not received an email. I yet again inquired online as to the status, and Stephen promised me an email within 24 hours.
I did not receive that email. It is now November 13th, and I spoke to you, Ivan, tonight.
I demand an immediate and prompt inquiry into the status of my withdrawal. I demand a responsible handling of the situation such that I am in possession of that $100 within 5 business days.
After repeated broken promises as to your handling of the situation, I am left to conclude deliberate malfeasance on the part of Intrade. I hope that my conclusion is incorrect. If it is proven correct, I will be extremely upset and publicize Intrade's behavior.
I look forward to your prompt reply.
David Joseph
From: Help@tradesports.com
Subject: RE: Withdrawal fiasco
Date: November 13, 2006 9:52:47 PM EST
To: <my email address>
Hello David
Thank you for your enquiry. We have forwarded your email to the banking department and they will respond shortly, probably early tomorrow morning.
Thank you for your patience in the meantime. Please let us know if we can help you further.
Kind Regards,
Ivan Y
Exchange Operations
Trade Exchange Network Limited
(Incorporating www.tradesports.com, www.intrade.com & www.tradebetx.com)
From: Help@intrade.com
Subject: Re: Withdrawal fiasco
Date: November 14, 2006 2:34:00 AM EST
To: <my email address>
Dear David,
Please accept our sincere apologies for the delay you have experienced on this withdrawal. However, this is not in our control, as per previous warnings on the site, American banks have been rejecting credit card transactions for some time now, and if any member wished to try to have funds put back on their card, they also ran the risk of their own bank rejecting the funds. When this occurs, it will then take the funds some amount of time to bounce back to us here. We can not speed up this process. And unfortunately, we can not return the funds to you, until they have been returned to us.
We can assure you that this delay is not due to any mis appropriate handling of your funds by the exchange, but due only to the fact that your bank has rejected this transaction. However, I will pass this along directly to our banking manager, who will look into the matter further, and get back to you regarding this later today.
Again, we apologize for this inconvenience.
If you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind Regards,
Anna Farley
Exchange Operations
From: <my email address>
Subject: Re: Withdrawal fiasco
Date: November 18, 2006 9:17:22 AM EST
To: Help@intrade.com
Anna,
Your reply is not acceptable. It has been three months since my withdrawal, and you had no warning on your site at the time of my withdrawal. It should not take three months for the withdrawal to be rejected by my bank.
Furthermore, I need to know what the *status* is on my withdrawal. I need you to determine that for me, as Intrade has repeatedly promised but failed to do.
David
From: help@tradesports.com
Subject: Re: Withdrawal fiasco
Date: November 18, 2006 9:21:33 AM EST
To: <my email address>
Hello David,
Thank you for your inquiry. We have forwarded your email to the
relevant department and they will respond on Monday morning.
Thank you for your patience in the meantime. Please let us know if we
can help you further.
Kind Regards,
Mark Finnegan
Exchange Operations
Trade Exchange Network Limited
From: help@tradesports.com
Subject: Re: Withdrawal fiasco
Date: November 23, 2006 6:22:14 AM EST
To: <my email address>
Hi David,
We have requested a trace from our bank on two previous occasions and again today. i have asked the trace be escalated due to the significant time delay.
As soon as the funds are returned we will re-credit your account in order for you to withdraw through an alternative method.
Sincere apologies for the delay.
Regards.
Barry
From: <my email address>
Subject: Re: Withdrawal fiasco
Date: November 24, 2006 9:56:26 PM EST
To: help@tradesports.com
What are the statuses of those traces?
From: Help@tradesports.com
Subject: RE: Withdrawal fiasco
Date: November 24, 2006 10:07:49 PM EST
To: <my email address>
Hello David,
Thank you for your enquiry. We have forwarded your email to the relevant department and they will respond on Monday morning as it is a banking issue and will need to be resolved by them.
Thank you for your patience in the meantime. Please let us know if we can help you further.
Kind Regards,
Sanjeev
Exchange Operations
Trade Exchange Network Limited
(Incorporating www.tradesports.com, www.intrade.com & www.tradebetx.com)
